"Zero Premium Life" Blitz

[sgates]

Suddenly the internet appears to be awash with variations on this theme:

The zero premium life insurance is a universal life product available for ages 65 to 85. The premiums will be paid to the insurance carrier by a private institution. The carrier will insure the insured for $50,000. When the insured passes away, the beneficiary will receive $15,000 and the private institution will receive the remaining $35,000. The insured is getting a $15,000 life insurance policy at no cost to them.

I am very interested in getting details on the individual(s) and carrier(s) behind the marketing pitch, so any details that can be provided would be greatly appreciated.

Steven
sgates@bufkin.com

[Todd Simpson]

This is a non-recourse loan deal. Also called third party insurance. Our carriers won't allow it anymore - not sure who is actually advertising it.

[sgates]

This is one of numerous similar posts I came across soliciting producers. (This happens to be from the person who solicited my producer.)

http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/fns/315551489.html

Statewide Zero Premium Final Expense Plan
Reply to: doug@absolutioncenter.com
Date: 2007-04-20, 2:59PM EDT


Attention Agents Looking to Work in the Senior Market!

My name is Douglas Stratton. I work for American Benefit Services. American Benefit Services is a national FMO, and we are looking to contract agents at every level, that would be interested in selling a zero premium final expense plan. This product will be available in North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Vermont, and California. Below is a summary of this final expense product.

A+ Carrier
Issue Ages 65-85
Death benefit $15,000
Premium to insured - $0.00
State availability - NC, SC, GA, CA, VT
5 question Simplified Underwriting
Telephone interview by carrier on every application
Agent Compensation - tentatively $250 per approved application

It will be the responsibility of each agent to submit business which will meet all underwriting requirements and the responsibility of all managers to verify all of the applications through verification phone calls. Termination of Agent /Agency contract will result from bogus business submissions.

This program offers one of the most exciting business opportunities ever in the senior market. If you are interested in learning more about this product, please email me at doug@absolutioncenter.com or call me at 843-763-3333.

[Pirate91]

I work through a marketing group that is based in NC and they are sending me emails on this stuff. Of course I'm in FL and it doesn't appear to be approved down here and I wouldn't offer it if I could. Whatever happened to insurable interest? This company gains off the death of old folks? Smells alot like speculation to me.

[PAinsuranceAgent]

Sounds like the companies that buyout an existing UL insured for peanuts and hope they die. I wouldn't want to represent them.

[LaffAgent]

<sorry, removed>

[daballa05]

Ching ching..ching...:D

[Commbroker]

Zero premium is not new....look at Advantage Medicare. The difference is now it's in life insurance. For those who say it's wrong for a 3rd party to profit when people pass. Well the flip side of that is what about the thousands of senior citizens who can't afford life insurance or a final expense policy because they are dependent on Social Security. To let them protect their spouses or children...or even to leave their grandkids some money for their education doesn't seem at all bad or unethical to me. People who need it the most...the ones that can't afford it....would be getting something they couldn't normally afford. If you think that's unethical...then ask 10 senior citizens in a poor financial condition if they think that's unethical!

[Pirate91]

Insurable interest.....that's what it boils down to. So if I personally had enough cash to spend a month it would be ok to go on and get life insurance policies on as many folks as I could, old, street dwellers, you name it, as long as someone got part of the proceeds and I got the majority for my "trouble." Sound good?

[jswjr]

The email that is posted on this thread is from a guy named Doug Stratton.I have dealt with this guy for Medicare Advantage plans and he is a OK guy.

I can't offer much info on the zero premium thing because I'm in the process of getting contracted to offer the plan and don't know alot at this time.

All I know is that Doug has been straight with me in all of my business dealing with him.

[Juddzilla]

I am also in the process of finding out more of what they have to offer. Has anyone heard anything yet? I started the process over a week ago, with no response to date.

[glenn]

Careful people. Notice how we seem to have a number of 1 post wonders in here asking about the product and promoting it. Now either we're getting blitzed by bias, or the subject is drawing in new posters - either is possible, but be suspicious. I've even seen credentialled professors at universities pull that stunt. I may be 100% wrong, but be wary.

I'd lend a bit more credibility if we had some more long term members weighing in positively on this.

[Juddzilla]

I did a Google search on the topic, and this forum is on the 1st or second page. I've been a licensed California agent since 2000, doing mostly health insurance and I am truly interested in only learning more about what these people have to offer. If I learn anything (be it positive or negative) I will post it here, and I hope everyone else will do the same.

[glenn]

lol. We get some odd traffic occassionally from the search engines. I had a fellow from Austria come in based on some of my search engine posts - who's now become a friend and someone I've met numerous times at conferences.

Anyway, not singling out anyone specifically (and no need to prove credentials :) ). It's just generally a good idea to be wary on forums when there's a rash of new posters on a subject - as I noted it's not unknown for someone to try and boost up a subject by having a bunch of new registrations all chime in on a subject.

[Juddzilla]

glenn I hope my post didn't make it sound as though I took offense by what you said, because I didn't in the least. The feeling in my gut is that this "new" product is too good to be true and that I've wasted $10 for nothing. I'm just trying to do my due diligence and learn as much about the people and companies connected to this as I can. Frankly I think it would be easier uncovering CIA operations in Iran then it would who is involved with this product. LOL.

[bitsdawg]

A local broker that has given me good advice before (sometimes I found out later it was good advice I wish I had takent) said to hold on while she checked it out.

And what about that insurable interest thing?????? Are they going to go hire hit men to poison everybody's lipitor? (Do I watch too much TV?)

On the other hand, I've written medicare advantage plans in some very poor areas, and would love to be able to hand them some free final expense insurance...heck for some I'd do it if I didn't get paid. ... plus it would be good for generating referals.

When I first saw it, I thought they were somehow taking the Social Security $255 death benefit to apply to premiums. I thought the death benefit would depend on how old the person was or something.

[daballa05]

Regardless of what we say or think some one is going to sell & purchase this ...and why not me....;)

[Brad Howard]

More links of interest.....

http://insureblog.blogspot.com/search?q=zero+premium
http://insurancenewsnet.com/article.asp?a=top_lh&id=79030

[MaxReferrals]

It's a third-party, as has been elaborated here. Insurable interest
or not, if someone is willing to write on it, then they are taking the risk.

The larger issue is how it is being marketed to the public -- and the often incredulous claims of ROI to a public that doesn't undertand the
intracacies.

-- A.C.

[Insurancejosh]

"Attention Agents and Producers!
Recently, promotional material surfaced in North Carolina recruiting the agent community to participate in sales of a zero premium life insurance policy. The promotion indicates the product is approved for use in North Carolina but fails to identify the insurance company or the specific product. The insurance company and the product of this promotion have yet to be identified by the Department. You are advised to use caution in considering this program until detailed information is obtained about the product and the product can be thoroughly reviewed. If you have information that specifically identifies this product, please contact the Life and Health Division by phone at (919) 733-5060 or by email at: landhdivision@ncdoi.net"

Quote from North Carolina Department of Insurance - www.NCDOI.com

[Juddzilla]

Thanks for the head's up josh. I've already decided to write off the $10 I sent to these people. After this blows over I'll be curious to see how many got caught up in this apparent scam. Another black eye for our industry...just what we needed.

[kdaniel]

How about the credit card info for the $10 and the SSN number we're used to giving out when contracting?

[Juddzilla]

That's been on my mind for a couple of days, as well.

[Insurancejosh]

That's been on my mind for a couple of days, as well.

Juddzilla,
I would not worry to much. My DOI put that post on the website because they have been getting hundreds of phone calls per day over the last week or so. So they just wanted everybody to know that they did not know who is doing this or if it is even an insurance company. From a conversation I had with one of the guys up there they were even thinking that it maybe just an investment company vs. what we think. That is why they don't know anything about it. or so they are thinking.
I thinking it is both an insurance co. and an investment co.. I am also thinking that the DOI does not know anything about it b/c the UL is already approved. Only thing that needs to be approved is how the investment company has insurable interest. And I am not sure who would do that approving. I think it will go though... but when?
P.S. Most places are telling me that they are not giving out the company name b/c they do not want insider trading before it is releases.

Thanx for reading,
Joshua Hix, CSA, CLTC

[Bones]

There has been a lot of talk of the new "Zero Premium Life". I can assure you there is no such thing. Two major problems with it: A. Under state Insurance Laws the Primary beneficiary has to be someone with an insurable interest, such as a spouse, parent, or child, and in some cases a business that wants to cover a key employee, not an "investor" that seeks to profit from ones death. B. Under these laws the only party that can actually pay for the policy would be the insured. In other words one cannot take out insurance policies on whom ever they please and be named the beneficiary. I've researched Zero Premium, and such animal does not exist!! Buyer Beware!!

[Insurancejosh]

Lawyers have been doing this same thing for clients for years. But only on large life policies.

[KevinTomlinson]

Zero premium life has been around for a while now...but I am weary of its newest incarnation. It has been used in the past for large dollar amounts, and has been reffered to as premium financing. The concept makes sense, but I would require a wet signature to cut down on bogus apps. I havent signed up, because I refuse to sign up for something that is "on its way" when I dont even know the carriers name. When I know the carrier, thats when I will evaluate the program. Remember, if someone wants you to sign up now, or miss the boat, its probably not a good idea.

Kevin

[Insurancejosh]

Zero premium life has been around for a while now...but I am weary of its newest incarnation. It has been used in the past for large dollar amounts, and has been reffered to as premium financing. The concept makes sense, but I would require a wet signature to cut down on bogus apps. I havent signed up, because I refuse to sign up for something that is "on its way" when I dont even know the carriers name. When I know the carrier, thats when I will evaluate the program. Remember, if someone wants you to sign up now, or miss the boat, its probably not a good idea.

Kevin

You hit the nail on the head!

[Juddzilla]

When I started discussing this a couple of weeks back with a gentleman from Las Vegas I was told that it was already approved in California, and that it would launch May 1st. Well, here it is a week later and I shoot off to him a stern email, to which he promptly replied. He said that "they" are waiting for a few more details to be worked out, and that we should hear something in a week or so. I don't think that I'll hold my breath. LOL

[Juddzilla]

Hey guys, over at insurance forum dot net they have a 92 page long discussion on this topic...with the majority feeling as I do (scammed out of $10).

[Bones]

Suddenly the internet appears to be awash with variations on this theme:



I am very interested in getting details on the individual(s) and carrier(s) behind the marketing pitch, so any details that can be provided would be greatly appreciated.

Steven
sgates@bufkin.com
Zero Premium "HOAX"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There has been a lot of talk of the new "Zero Premium Life". I can assure you there is no such thing. Two major problems with it: A. Under state Insurance Laws the Primary beneficiary has to be someone with an insurable interest, such as a spouse, parent, or child, and in some cases a business that wants to cover a key employee, not an "investor" that seeks to profit from ones death. B. Under these laws the only party that can actually pay for the policy would be the insured. In other words one cannot take out insurance policies on whom ever they please and be named the beneficiary. I've researched Zero Premium, and such animal does not exist!! Buyer Beware!!

[Bones]

Recently, promotional material surfaced in South Carolina recruiting the agent community to participate in
sales of a zero premium life insurance policy. The promotion indicates the product is approved for use in South
Carolina but fails to identify the insurance company or the specific product. The insurance company and the
product of this promotion have yet to be identified by the Department. Without this information, we are unable
to determine whether a similar product or marketing method has, in fact, been approved by this Department.
We are looking into this issue. YOU ARE ADVISED TO USE CAUTION IN CONSIDERING THIS
PROGRAM UNTIL DETAILED INFORMATION IS OBTAINED ABOUT THE PRODUCT AND THE
PRODUCT CAN BE THOROUGHLY REVIEWED. If you have information that specifically identifies this
product, please contact Everick Patterson, Chief Investigator, by phone at 803-737-6092 or by email at:
epatterson@doi.sc.gov

[Juddzilla]

Hey guys, over at insurance forum dot net they have a 92 page long discussion on this topic...with the majority feeling as I do (scammed out of $10).

I just realized that the address is wrong. It is: insurance-forums dot net.

[AICLLC]

Remember when you took your insurance exam way back when? Remember the part about insurable interest? Well, guess what, nothing has changed since then. I know that premium financing which is similar, has existed for years, but it IS NOT the same thing.
Just like all the rest of you, I was real excited when some guy named Andy called me from a place in NC, or was it VA called Miracle Insurace and Financial Group trying to recruit me for this free product. Immediately, I had concerns about the insurable interest part but he said that was all being worked out and the product was set for approval and rollout on May 1st. Of course, like the rest of you I was going to make $250 per every application approved. He was real big on not only contracting me, but getting me to get other agents to sub contract under me stating that I would get $25 for every application my sub agents would write upon approval.
He gave me two web sites to go to. www.miracleinsurance.com and www.zeropremlife.com. I ONLY GIVE THESE URL'S OUT SO YOU CAN CHECK OUT THE SITES TO SEE FOR YOURSELF WHAT IS APPARENT IF YOU LOOK INTO IT AND NOT TO SUGGEST THAT YOU CONTRACT WITH THIS FIRM! Initially, I was tempted like many of you are. Just dive right in and get contracted and wait for more info then begin selling/ giving away this fabulous product which would be an obvious boon to any agent familiar with selling to the simplified issue/ final expense market. WRONG!
Let's take a look at this first web site I listed. First of all it seems to be a hastily put together GO Daddy production which a real insurance/ financial firm probably wouldn't use. Second, take a look at the president of the company and his credentials: Twelve degrees, fluent in four languages, Special Forces Soldier, Air Force Pilot, Specializing in Nuclear Medicine, yada, yada, yada- I paraphrase. I'm not judging anybody, so don't get me wrong, but it just seems like this is laying it on a littlle too thick. And that picture in that white tuxedo, .....straight out of Glamor Shots down at the strip mall ( no offense to anyone working at Glamor Shots or anyone who ever got photoed there- BTW -does Lamor Shots even still exist?). When's the last time you saw a CEO pictured in a white tux on the company's official web site photo? Now, this may all sound a little comical to you, but I mean it. It just doesn't add up.
After going to that web site I went to the other web site and went to the contracting page. It said it was secure, but I did not see a little yellow lock on the bottom of my browser, and I'm not sure , but I don't think that the site address was "htmls"( secure), but only "html" at the beginning of the web address link. The page also asked for SS# and credit card info. I did not go further. I called the PA Ins. Dept. They called me back a day later from Harrisburg, stating that this company had been doing business in PA since 11/06, but there was no ZERO PREMIUM LIFE product approved, or about to be approved or even in the mill to be approved at any future date. They had no info on any of this and based on the concept, the man shared my skepticsm on the insurable interest part of it as well and did not think anything like this would EVER become a reality. I called Andy back and left him a voicemail. He called me late that evening and I told him what I had found out from the Insurance Dept. He stammered somewhat and said he would get back to me. The next day he called and said that the confusion with the PA Dept. of Ins. was cleared up in that the product had already been approved since basically it is just a UL policy, BUT it was the funding mechanism ( the financial institution) that had not yet been approved by the state yet. Nice try.
Since then I also called the NC Insurance Department from a link on this forum. They said they were familiar with Miracle Insurance and that Miracle Insurance was NOT COOPERATING in sharing the name of the INSURANCE COMPANY and Financial Intitution that was going to supposedly provide the product and funding respectively. Andy previously told me that was because they did not want to lose out on market share when this thing rolls out. But he didn't explain that all other companies would have to go through the same state approval process as well, thus ensuring this company's market share due to the time lag of the approval process. So why not divulge the name of the Insurance company that the state should really already know about anyway, if it was legit? Nice try again! Yet another red flag.
After all my investigation into this matter, I am convinced that this was not a hoax, because a hoax usually is like a practical joke with no real damage done. This IS a scam DESIGNED TO ROB insurance agents of their identity. You gave your SS#, and credit card info, and gave up ten bucks to top it all off. And general agents who have sent your sub agents to get appointed under you......, you just unwittingly assisted in robbing your agents of their identities. Isn't it amazing, the things we will do when we WANT to make believe something is true and real. But that's how con men work. They play on your wanting to believe. I am not trying to scare anybody, but if you signed up for this thing, I would immediately get a credit report and begin checking you acount balances now. Many on this forum has been discussing if it's real or not, if it's a good idea or not, how it is similar to premium finacing, etc. You're all missing the point because it IS NOT REAL! Save yourself now. Secure up your finances now. Another black eye for our industry and this time the joke's on us! Take care.

[glenn]

My pals at the actuarial discussion forum weigh in:
http://www.actuarialoutpost.com/actuarial_discussion_forum/showthread.php?t=108867

[glenn]

If you're sitting around a table playing poker, and can't spot the sucker........ guess what?

[daballa05]

i received an e mail from zero premium. Their Portal is up and i have a writing number. Their Number Is 919-844-7200 Miracle apprved but not approved to sell yet..:cool:

[MaxReferrals]

Regulators are getting even more weary of these forms of
shady pitches and positioning.

It is only going to get worse.

[Brad Howard]

this posted today

http://insureblog.blogspot.com/2007/05/zpl-zero-premium-life-update.html

[bitsdawg]

I remember being in a class, and being warned about a scam in Texas. Some slick recruiters came and "appointed" a bunch of agents to sell a health insurance product. Apparently they had an insurance company name and some really great marketing materials. The agents went out and sold a bunch of "it".

Not one of the agents bothered to check with the Texas Dept. Insurance (TDI) to see if it was a real insurance company - maybe the name sounded similar to a real company or something.

Anyway, the upshot was that it as all smoke and mirrors. The recruiters cashed checks, no insurance existed, and the agents had short careers.

I have no idea if this is similar, but it sort of smells like a fish...you know...if it looks like a fish, and smells like a fish.....

[deja_Vu]

E-MAIL from North Carolina Department of Insurance


Inquiries have been heavy regarding the Miracle Insurance & Financial Group and its marketing promotion of a zero premium life insurance policy. Sorry for my delay in responding to you.

Miracle recently changed its web site to replace zero premium with no cost to the insured. No company has been identified to this Department that is underwriting the purposed product. The Department posted some time ago a cautionary notice to producers regarding this marketing proposal. You may need to clear the cache on your computer if you are not able to view the notice located at the following link:

http://www.ncdoi.com/

The Agent Search on the Department's web site is at the following link: http://infoportal.ncdoi.net/agent_search.jsp?TYPE=P

Type in Alireza Shahrak to retrieve a status on his standing with the Department.

The bottom line is that no company or approved product has been identified and whether or not this is a viable product for sale in North Carolina is unknown. I can tell you that no such marketing approach has been filed directly with the Life & Health Division identifying the promotional campaign released by the Miracle Insurance & Financial Group.

Theresa N. Shackelford, CPM, ALHC
Supervisor, Life & Health Division
919 / 733-5060 ext 351
tshackel@ncdoi.net

[glenn]

Thanks for posting that deja_vu.

[Sleuther1]

When Medicare Advantage was introduced nearly everyone said it was a scam. Look where it is now and how many it has helped! Regarding the "Zero Life" again everyone is bad mouthing it. I say let's simply wait and see what developes and take it from there. However, if THE ASSURANCE GROUP (TAG) of Archdale, NC has ANYTHING to do with it I personally would stay as far away from it as I could possibly get! Those familiar with TAG know exactly what I am talking about. If they have their hands in it you can count on something NOT being right.

[moneymaker]

When Medicare Advantage was introduced nearly everyone said it was a scam. Look where it is now and how many it has helped! Regarding the "Zero Life" again everyone is bad mouthing it. I say let's simply wait and see what developes and take it from there. However, if THE ASSURANCE GROUP (TAG) of Archdale, NC has ANYTHING to do with it I personally would stay as far away from it as I could possibly get! Those familiar with TAG know exactly what I am talking about. If they have their hands in it you can count on something NOT being right.
I have worked with The Assurance Group (TAG) for 7 years. I have seen my own income rise over 6 figures and continue to increase. Not to mention the other people who I have helped reach that same level. TAG has grown tremendously fast in the last few years and this has created problems, but they are working those issues out. I have no issues with TAG. I have seen people leave for what they thought would be a better opportunity and many times they come back because they do not get paid as they are suppose to, or they do not have the lead system avalable to them that we have at TAG. TAG is also well respected by the carriers because of the amount of production that we submit each week and our ethics. I can walk into the CEO's office tomorrow and if I have an issue he will do everything he can to make it right. He will do the same with my down line. Most of the time when I hear comments like this from disgruntled former agents they left with a big debt that they owed and can not get thier renewals. Big debts usually come from agents who do not know how to write good business or they are unethical (especially when it comes to the medicare advantage products) and thier business falls off the books. When the no cost to the insured final expense happens, and it will happen , TAG will lead the market in production,
because we will be given the support and tools to accomplish this.

[bitsdawg]

OK moneymaker with the big downline. Explain the "insurable interest" thing.

[ncinsagent]

OK moneymaker with the big downline. Explain the "insurable interest" thing.


I'm not Moneymaker, but I have had someone close to the program explain the insurable interest to me. As we all know, II is only required at time of application. Each client will apply for the entire policy amount (whether it is 30K 70K 100K, etc). Subsequent to application, they will enter into agreement for the financial institution to pay the premium in exchange for X-$15K of the face amount.

Nothing really different than what is happening all over the place every day.

We'll get more details yet this week from what I understand.

[Insurancejosh]

I'm not Moneymaker, but I have had someone close to the program explain the insurable interest to me. As we all know, II is only required at time of application. Each client will apply for the entire policy amount (whether it is 30K 70K 100K, etc). Subsequent to application, they will enter into agreement for the financial institution to pay the premium in exchange for X-$15K of the face amount.

Nothing really different than what is happening all over the place every day.

We'll get more details yet this week from what I understand.

Who do you work for in Raleigh, NC??? Miracle?

[ncinsagent]

Who do you work for in Raleigh, NC??? Miracle?

No - I am an independent agent. I have several appointments. I don't have my Med Supp/LTC license, so I couldn't connect with Miracle for the work they did with Medicare Advantage plans...

[ncinsagent]

I have worked with The Assurance Group (TAG) for 7 years. I have seen my own income rise over 6 figures and continue to increase. Not to mention the other people who I have helped reach that same level. TAG has grown tremendously fast in the last few years and this has created problems, but they are working those issues out. I have no issues with TAG. I have seen people leave for what they thought would be a better opportunity and many times they come back because they do not get paid as they are suppose to, or they do not have the lead system avalable to them that we have at TAG. TAG is also well respected by the carriers because of the amount of production that we submit each week and our ethics. I can walk into the CEO's office tomorrow and if I have an issue he will do everything he can to make it right. He will do the same with my down line. Most of the time when I hear comments like this from disgruntled former agents they left with a big debt that they owed and can not get thier renewals. Big debts usually come from agents who do not know how to write good business or they are unethical (especially when it comes to the medicare advantage products) and thier business falls off the books. When the no cost to the insured final expense happens, and it will happen , TAG will lead the market in production,
because we will be given the support and tools to accomplish this.


What is TAG's connection to Miracle? I looked up Miracle on NCDOI and it says they are under investigation, and has Ed Shackleford's contact information, who is also the contact for TAG. I thought Ali Shahrak was in charge at Miracle? Anyone?

[moneymaker]

Ali contracted thru Tag to work some of the MA products a couple of years back.

[armyranger1986]

If the policy was a group policy and used in a Trust there is no need for insurable interest.

This has been done before.

[bitsdawg]

I don't think the policy would be a group policy. I did some research, and the main time when some states waive insurable interest is for charities it seems. Now I did some reading on some investors using a charity to ... sort of ... uh ... attach themselves too.

I took two points away from the article I mention below:

From what I read, investors will look for insurance companies that they feel underprice their life products. After all, in a perfect underwriter's world, we'd all live to be 110, and they'd only pay death benefits after we paid up our policies and they had a chance to make money from the investment.

Insurable interest exists to protect the insured from having their lives gambled upon, and to prevent the policy owners from having an interest in the insured's death.


It does not just exist to annoy agressive recruiters.

As attractive as the thought of getting paid to hand out a valuable thing for free would be, I would need more convincing then a statement like ... "it happens all the time" ....or insurable interest only applies when you write the policy, and not when you change beneficiaries. Really? I must have dozed off during that part of my class.

I needed some education on this since I've never written a life policy that did not have a close family member, domestic partner, or business partner as a beneficiary. This article: Insurable Interest Under Siege (http://www.pgdc.com/usa/item/?itemID=210269)- is a few years old, but it was educational for me!

Anyway, I haven't seen the product get approved anyway, so we'll see if its inevitable or not.

[deja_Vu]

What is TAG's connection to Miracle? I looked up Miracle on NCDOI and it says they are under investigation, and has Ed Shackleford's contact information, who is also the contact for TAG. I thought Ali Shahrak was in charge at Miracle? Anyone?


This might answer your question. Or, it may create more questions for Columbo:confused: :confused:.


1. GO TO:

http://www.miracleinsurance.com/aboutus.htm

YOU WILL FIND MIRACLE SAYING:

“Operating in All 50 states, Miracle Insurance & Financial Group has a combined experience of over 100 years. With recent growth at 10,000% we offer our agents unlimited potential solidified by a culture of honesty & integrity; our combined production exceeded $1.6 Billion in 2006" (emphasis mine).

2. NOW, CLICK “Join Us” or GO TO:

http://www.miracleinsurance.com/joinus.htm

3. CLICK ON:

“Other Product Contracting”

HERE, YOU FILL FIND: “The Assurance Group”

4. NOW, GO TO:

http://www.assuregrp.com/

Welcome to The Assurance Group. Founded in 1988 by an ambitious young entrepreneur, The Assurance Group or ‘TAG’ as it is often referred to, has grown to become one of the largest Insurance Marketing Organizations in the nation today. With total production of over $1.6 billion last year, TAG has become one of the preeminent independent distributors in the marketplace (emphasis mine).

Coincidence? Cooperation? Conspiracy? Copyright Plagiarism? Cop Out? Copy Cat? Cohort? Coercion? Cool?:cool:

[deja_Vu]

When Medicare Advantage was introduced nearly everyone said it was a scam. Look where it is now and how many it has helped! Regarding the "Zero Life" again everyone is bad mouthing it. I say let's simply wait and see what developes and take it from there. However, if THE ASSURANCE GROUP (TAG) of Archdale, NC has ANYTHING to do with it I personally would stay as far away from it as I could possibly get! Those familiar with TAG know exactly what I am talking about. If they have their hands in it you can count on something NOT being right.

If this proposition (zero premium life) is true, which I doubt it is, I have two options:

1. If Miracle is owned by The Asurance Group. I agree with you. Run as far away from TAG as possible.

By the way, Mr. Moneymaker, none of my business fell off the books. But still TAG has my renewals. There is life away from TAG. I'm also currently a "moneymaker" and "big-down-line-holder" without TAG.

2. If Miracle is the Main Dude, and TAG is just another FMO under Miracle, there's plenty out there to be contracted through. (A preposition is a part of speech you don't want to end a sentence with):) . But with TAG, never, never again.

[unsure1]

I didn't realize that TAG was in any way teamed up with Miracle Group. That is disappointing. I too, had many bad experiences with TAG.

Now a question. Will the IRS allow an "investment group" to put together a plan to receive tax free life insurance payouts in the millions of dollars?

[moneymaker]

Sorry you guys have had such bad experiences with TAG. My guess is as negative as you sound, you have had many bad experiences in life. The agents who have wanted to grow and have stayed thru the good and bad times, are doing well with TAG. I get renewals every month from all of the companies that I am appointed with thru TAG, I know many others who do as well. It did not happen over night. It took time to build and learn how to manage a downline. I am happy with The Assurance Group. I am sure there are other National Marketing Organizations that are good to work for as well.
One thing I have noticed in my recruiting is that agents who do a lot of jumping from one company to the other, not taking the time to work thru issues, are never really happy with whatever company they are with. They also never really build something substantial. Good luck to you!

Tag does not own Miracle. Ali owns Miracle.

[Brad Howard]

More states get involved.....this is corrected link below from earlier today.

http://insureblog.blogspot.com/2007/06/zero-premium-life-update-2nd_04.html

[JMO Fan]

I have known several agents who offered free life insurance for the first year. They find a high-first-year-cash-value plan, where commissions plus first year cash value exceed the premium, and the discounted first-year cash value is available (usually as a loan) immediately at issue. The policyowner assigns cash value rights or borrows to pay premium, agent rebates (P-CV1) of their commission.

This might or might not be part of the current "free insurance" scheme. There are a number of ways to set up "free insurance" that are hard for regulators to catch, but none are legal. Some of them fool the insurer (and agents) as well.

It isn't legal, but often isn't caught until the second-year lapses accelerate. The insurer can lose a lot before they stop issuing the policies. Rebating, lack of insurable interest, unfair discrimination violations are evident, and anyone associated is likely to lose, including the unfortunate insured whose policy has to be revoked.

If the violations are not caught quickly by the state (which, unfortunately, is common), the insurer will take action when it realizes how much money is being lost. The lack of insurable interest will probably enable them to rescind the policies. The other violations (and the costs) will come out of the agent's hide.

[ncinsagent]

I have known several agents who offered free life insurance for the first year. They find a high-first-year-cash-value plan, where commissions plus first year cash value exceed the premium, and the discounted first-year cash value is available (usually as a loan) immediately at issue. The policyowner assigns cash value rights or borrows to pay premium, agent rebates (P-CV1) of their commission.

This might or might not be part of the current "free insurance" scheme. There are a number of ways to set up "free insurance" that are hard for regulators to catch, but none are legal. Some of them fool the insurer (and agents) as well.

It isn't legal, but often isn't caught until the second-year lapses accelerate. The insurer can lose a lot before they stop issuing the policies. Rebating, lack of insurable interest, unfair discrimination violations are evident, and anyone associated is likely to lose, including the unfortunate insured whose policy has to be revoked.

If the violations are not caught quickly by the state (which, unfortunately, is common), the insurer will take action when it realizes how much money is being lost. The lack of insurable interest will probably enable them to rescind the policies. The other violations (and the costs) will come out of the agent's hide.


JMO - thanks for the information, but that is not anything close to what this program will be. With the cease and desist recently put in place by Miracle, the waters will be calm while the details are finalized, and I think it will be ready within a month.

[JMO Fan]

JMO - thanks for the information, but that is not anything close to what this program will be. With the cease and desist recently put in place by Miracle, the waters will be calm while the details are finalized, and I think it will be ready within a month.
The program I outlined might not be the same, but the evidence of unfair discrimination and lack of insurable interest is clear, and rebating probable. Those violations are often hard to prove, but they are violations.

[bitsdawg]

Wow. Some of the posters sound like little concepts like insurable interest and rebating are just annoyances. I wonder how you train new agents! As for my sad and unhappy life, moneymaker...well....that sounds like the sort of thing a certain type of salesperson would say.....

As I said before, I'd love to hand out free life insurance to senior citizens more than most of you, and would have a great opportunity to do so - but it's nothing like MA which is paid for by CMS money and marketing is tightly regulated.

However, I cannot sell (give) a product where a third party has an interest in the client's life span being shorter. And I am from Texas, where our Department of Insurance came out with a much milder statement than some others did. Life settlements are legal here. But I think it all comes down to intent. The individuals did not buy the policy, intending to transfer it. As I've stated before, I cannot even see how life insurance companies would want this product as it involves betting against them too.

Zero Premium Life Insurance (http://www.insuranceleadsite.com/2007/05/31/zero-premium-life-insurance-really/)

[daballa05]

Well, i am from texas to and it is legal here so.. bring it on my bank acct is waiting..ching ching..:D

[Vaughn Siller]

This is an interesting quote from the DOI in Texas:

"Texas law allows an individual to consent to the purchase of insurance on his or her life by another person or legal entity, including strangers".

[bitsdawg]

This is an interesting quote from the DOI in Texas:

"Texas law allows an individual to consent to the purchase of insurance on his or her life by another person or legal entity, including strangers".
Yeah, I read that too...I was a little surprised. Yet gambling is illegal. Funny state we live in.

[deja_Vu]

One thing I have noticed in my recruiting is that agents who do a lot of jumping from one company to the other, not taking the time to work thru issues, are never really happy with whatever company they are with. They also never really build something substantial.

Wow. So TAG is the only FMO/NMO you've been with since obtaining your insurance license. Very interesting.:rolleyes:

[deja_Vu]

Tag does not own Miracle. Ali owns Miracle.

So then, who has the 1.6 billion production last year, TAG or Miracle? :confused:

[moneymaker]

Tag has several brokers across the US that contributed to those numbers.

[Robert L. Barney]

Texas Sounds Alarm On Wave Of STOLI Solicitations


http://cms.nationalunderwriter.com/cms/nulh/Weekly%20Issues/issues/2007/24/News/L24texas

[linnping]

Interested ;)

[Coptic]

When Medicare Advantage was introduced nearly everyone said it was a scam. Look where it is now and how many it has helped! Regarding the "Zero Life" again everyone is bad mouthing it. I say let's simply wait and see what developes and take it from there. However, if THE ASSURANCE GROUP (TAG) of Archdale, NC has ANYTHING to do with it I personally would stay as far away from it as I could possibly get! Those familiar with TAG know exactly what I am talking about. If they have their hands in it you can count on something NOT being right.

I, along with anyone in my office, along with all the seniors I enrolled into a Medicare Advantage plan, never thought is was a scam. I don't know where you are getting your statistics from.
Unlike the "Zero premium life insurance", You knew that the senior were still paying their Part B premium in order to qualify for Medicare advantage, you also knew that for each person you enroll, the state paid the insurance company about $10,000 a year. Nothing was given out for free.
This "Zero premium Life insurance" on the other hand, the only logically explanation is that some investor is financing the premium, which from a legal stand point is shady.
I am not saying that it is not legitimate, but I would definitely wait until the insurance company is identified and full disclosure is made public, before I would approach it with a 10 foot pole.

[bitsdawg]

I am obviously not as experienced with all the different uses of life insurance as some of you are - but I just came of my required CE courses, and it seems like I picked up something about the third parties needing to be licensed too if they don't have a insurable relationship to the insured.

i.e. selling your life insurance to your son would be different than selling it to a stranger. Plus, tax ramifications may enter into it for the seller.

In the interest of not having the CE class last one minute more than the state requirement, I did not delve into it, so I don't exactly know what they have to be licensed as.

However, now I'm wondering if the insured person would have to consider the portion of the premium that the investor pays (i.e. guess all of it) as taxable income. Anybody?

I mean..before I sold this product I would want to know a lot more.

[Lifeagent911]

It is something that you need to avoid and run from. It's a scam.